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@  TheWarden : (03 September 2015 - 05:07 PM) if I were able to purchase ... that accepts crytpo, that would be great. It's not the case in my area. @ShivaFang I wasn't aware of any credit card settlement projects using Ripple; that is awesome
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 05:06 PM) http://www.getonebit.com/(the background image has video of them paying at coffee shops with it)
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 05:05 PM) They don't even need to accept crypto anymore. There's an app that will auto-convert your BTC to a merchant's till via the major credit card networks
@  TheWarden : (03 September 2015 - 05:04 PM) Also, in Bitcoin's case, if I were able to purchase food at a restaurant or fuel from a gas station that accepts crypto. I know ripple's main use case is for FIs and banks; I am focused on Gateways, how to create an environment to grow the community of service providers, and how XRP/Issuances can be used by regular Joe Blow to go and buy food, fuel, and/or a beer at a bar.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 05:04 PM) Yes, precisely. Ripple targetting FIs is a fantastic goal, but in the short term they should focus on consumers. The examples I have given in the last few minutes illustrate why.
@  TheWarden : (03 September 2015 - 05:02 PM) The difference in features, ease of access, so forth is what could allow for ripple to become adopted by people. It would help the ripple ecosystem if more online merchants were to support ripple payments.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 05:02 PM) @TheWarden Right - that's the point I was making. Ripple does have a real world use *right now* - but that use is overshadowed by other businesses like Paypal.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 05:01 PM) Ripple wants to be the 'internet of value' like the 'internet of information' - however the internet of information didn't reach mass adoption until consumers had access to it. Prior to that it was only used by universities and not very much at that.
@  TheWarden : (03 September 2015 - 05:00 PM) @ShivaFang I know and understand, I was trying to jump into your conversation there a bit. The use value of paypal is greater than using ripple for payment solutions between individuals is what I am saying.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 05:00 PM) Blackberry targetted businesses, iPhone targetted consumers. Which one survived the market?
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 05:00 PM) Which, to be honest, is a mistake.
@  TheWarden : (03 September 2015 - 05:00 PM) If ripple were to replace those functions of Paypal, the client and environment for non technical users has to also have a low barrier to entry, right now I would say that is not the case.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:59 PM) @TheWarden End users are not the target audience - banks and FIs are.
@  TheWarden : (03 September 2015 - 04:59 PM) What ripple lacks right now is use value for the end user. A messaging system and the ability to send invoices to ripple accounts would be great.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:58 PM) The last sentence should be "The features you argue that paypal doesn't have fall under your original statement that there are no real world uses."
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:58 PM) I'm sorry I worded that incorrectly. Let me try again.
@  TomB : (03 September 2015 - 04:57 PM) it will be gone by tonight
@  TomB : (03 September 2015 - 04:57 PM) @ShivaFang I agree it will probably be bought on multiple markets unless something happens with btc and the wall doesn't auto adjust to btc price.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:57 PM) @xtrapower I'm saying that there are real world uses, but none that isn't already covered by paypal. You argued that paypal doesn't have certain features that ripple does. The features you argue that paypal has falls under your original statement tehre are no real uses. It is the actual definition of the "Begging the Question" fallacy :)
@  TomB : (03 September 2015 - 04:56 PM) @ShivaFang yea, i agree. i use charts sometimes when it is a steady uptrend or downtrend but when it is up and down like it has been i find it difficult to read.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:56 PM) "But if wall is bought on bitstamp, china, japan, or bitstamp.btc" its an XRP wall - it's not a wall on those gateways (which is why it will dissapear everywhere) I guarentee you it won't be bought on one of those markets alone - it will slowly be picked away at on all those markets.
@  xtrapower : (03 September 2015 - 04:55 PM) "no real world usage at all beside some slight specualation with XRP" <- How am i arguing against my own point? My point is that the mainnet is sill a desert.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:54 PM) @TomB I looked at the 1 year chart. That doesn't matter. History repeating itself in a cycle is still valid if the pre-cycle is different. Granted, it takes at least 3 times to correctly be called a pattern - right now it's a coincidence.
@  TomB : (03 September 2015 - 04:54 PM) regarding price - right now it is ~iaiai causing the downward pressure. But if wall is bought on bitstamp, china, japan, or bitstamp.btc it dissappears everywhere and we look in good shape so do let the order books scare you. all this downtrend seems to be done with 4m xrp...
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:53 PM) Now you are arguing against your own point.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:52 PM) Right - but no one is using the low level fund settlement protocol (which was your point about 'no real world use').
@  xtrapower : (03 September 2015 - 04:52 PM) I think we are thinking the same way. What i'm trying to say is that the mainnet is still untouched by FI's - time will change that :)
@  xtrapower : (03 September 2015 - 04:51 PM) "but none that are not already covered by PayPal" <- Does Paypal offer a low level fund settlement protocol for global payments? Paypal is a consumer orientated product. Can't compare that with blockchain tech.
@  TomB : (03 September 2015 - 04:51 PM) @ShivaFang look at 7month chart though and not as much (have to use custom)
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:51 PM) Doesn't matter how different something is - there are things that can be done with ripple even if that's not the primary intention.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:51 PM) It's exactly the point. You say 'no real world useage' I'm saying there are real world uses - just none that are not better off doing it a different way at the moment.
@  xtrapower : (03 September 2015 - 04:50 PM) Well u can send money to your friend in a lot of different ways. Thats not the point. Ripple is doing something completely different.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:48 PM) Hell for that matter I may as well use Interac e-Transfer (which all Canadian banks and credit unions support) which would be effectively the same thing as me depositing money into ripple via intract and a gateway and my friend withdrawing it through a gateway and intrac to a bank. IT's an unneccesary extra step to use Ripple ATM.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:47 PM) @xtrapower "with real world usage i mean moving money on a deeper purpose than speculating with XRP" - right. Right now I could send money to a friend with Ripple (a real world useage that is covered by PayPal) hence what I said was correct. There are real-world uses, but none that are not already covered by PayPal.
@  xtrapower : (03 September 2015 - 04:45 PM) Earthport's new product with ripple integration could be the first step in that direction
@  xtrapower : (03 September 2015 - 04:44 PM) Paypal is not a fund settlement protocol - i wouldnt compare them to be honest. And with real world usage i mean moving money on a deeper purpose than speculating with XRP.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:42 PM) There's lots of real-world uses... just none currently that paypal doesn't also do.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:41 PM) And of course just as I type it it closes - even though it was there all morning.
@  xtrapower : (03 September 2015 - 04:41 PM) Well, as a speculator u have a hard time staying positive. The mainnet is still a desert landscape, no real world usage at all beside some slight specualation. Personally i'm still very positive but i totally understand the downward pressure.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:41 PM) @Rippler123 You can get a good deal on USD.SnapSwap by trading from XRP -> USD.BitStamp -> USD.Snapswap. The conversion is better than straight XRP->Snapswap. That's not what you were asking about though.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:37 PM) I mean seriously the graph from Mar-May looks identical to the graph from July-Now. It's uncanny
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:34 PM) I suppose - zooming out to a 6 month view on XRP/Usd.snap I'm seeing almost a double image
@  Rippler123 : (03 September 2015 - 04:31 PM) @ShivaFang I think this is part of a longer downtrend that we have been on
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:29 PM) Unlike the last panic this is NOT a side effect of a bitcoin sell - XRP is going down on all markets (even tiny markets like CAD are falling)
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:27 PM) My bot's graph only goes back 5 hours and that flash crash is just outside that window. Good thing I also look at RippleCharts every so often!
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:25 PM) :cray:
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:25 PM) WHOA been up an hour and I missed the biggest news of the day until now! XRP flash crashed to 0.00666 very early this morning (but recovered) and has been on a downward trend since. We're below James Bond again!
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:22 PM) @heartbit ledgermonitor's cool. Nice and simple with most of the information I need. Would like to see a list of recent trades though, not just payments.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:20 PM) @TomB Yup - regarding the buy-walls all being the same, that's a quirk of auto-bridging.
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:16 PM) @Rippler123 Right now my bot doesn't see a good path from Bitstamp to SnapSwap USD. At least not in one step (maybe in multiple). (That's something my bot is programmed to look for)
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 04:14 PM) That's kind of the same boat I'm in - hence why I set aside $30 to see if I can make a bit of extra money on here - because it's like forex without all the broker fees.
@  TheWarden : (03 September 2015 - 04:02 PM) All of what I have done was accomplished off of social assistance and persistence. I can't do manual labour but I sure can manage finances in a cryptographically secure manner. I encourage all of you able bodied people to spend a year (or two) on creating your project for Ripple if that is financially feasible, please drive value onto the network!
@  TheWarden : (03 September 2015 - 04:00 PM) @ShivaFang Thanks for the kind words :) Been working on trying to find a new place to move to so I can pay less rent than I do now to help fund the business.
@  TheWarden : (03 September 2015 - 03:57 PM) @heartbit You are doing some great work with ledgermonitor, keep it up man :)
@  ShivaFang : (03 September 2015 - 03:53 PM) @Rippler123 Well, I'm not a US person so it'd actually be quite difficult to move USD funds to and from a USD IOU - I use Bluzelle, because I'm Canadian (I might also use TheWarden's Xagate in the future, because he's on here lots and he's cool)
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 03:25 PM) the mood of the day with some smileys :D
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 03:25 PM) :drinks:
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 03:25 PM) :unsure:
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 03:24 PM) :shok:
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 03:24 PM) :drinks:
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 03:24 PM) :P
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 03:24 PM) ;)
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 03:24 PM) :)
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 02:34 PM) yeah *dev community* I mean :)
@  hypostatization : (03 September 2015 - 02:34 PM) i would not log in if i thought it was dead :) it is a problem to be solved
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 02:33 PM) I think the momentum is dead with the developers community, there will be no more collaboration. Just look at the donch case.
@  hypostatization : (03 September 2015 - 02:31 PM) i believe it. i think the lure of gaining a financial advantage naturally spins things in that direction. if there was a noticeably growing ripple job market (beyond working for RL), then i think that would incentivize more collaboration and open source contribution.
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 02:30 PM) well it's more a forced laugh.
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 02:25 PM) :)
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 02:25 PM) "There are the bots that also mine transaction ids and only turn up when a whale trades occur. Ripple isn't really a community of developers helping each other out. It's just self-interested geeks who battle through the Ripple API and try and deal with all the weird timing and latency issues that the API throws at you. I've tried to be open with my code, but just found that people use it and never really give feedback, with some very nice exceptions."
@  hypostatization : (03 September 2015 - 02:23 PM) not believe him about what specifically?
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 02:21 PM) if you add undisclosed issues...
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 02:21 PM) donch is technically brilliant, not sure there are 3-4 guys with his skill at Ripple Labs. It's a waste. I don't see why we would not believe him about his feelings in the last post. It's kinda worrying.
@  hypostatization : (03 September 2015 - 02:20 PM) i could be missing something, but a productively engaged community building useful things of substance almost seems to be a necessity
@  hypostatization : (03 September 2015 - 02:19 PM) private ledgers can provide many of the same benefits, and even exceed the benefits of public ledgers in specific areas. i expect that at a certain point, ripple labs is going to need to demonstrate the value of having an open public network.
@  hypostatization : (03 September 2015 - 02:19 PM) ripple labs, as a whole, is terrible with fostering a strong community. an untapped resources sits mostly idle. nonetheless, ripple labs is thriving independent of that resource. i am still left concerned for the network, however, despite FI traction... it comes down to this: private vs. public ledgers.
@  hypostatization : (03 September 2015 - 02:18 PM) i think, as individuals, many team members do an extraordinary job with engagement... considering that they have full time responsibilities beyond community engagement.
@  hypostatization : (03 September 2015 - 02:17 PM) ripple labs could get so much more from the community. a great deal of the friction comes from genuinely passionate people, those who attempt to positively contribute, and that potential is ultimately wasted.
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 02:16 PM) :)
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 02:16 PM) when I'm worried by both the situation and the undisclosed issues
@  hypostatization : (03 September 2015 - 02:15 PM) watching the donch situation unfold is depressing. i am less concerned about the specific exploit he is communicating than i am how terribly his relationship with ripple labs seems to have degraded.
@  hypostatization : (03 September 2015 - 02:14 PM) good stuff heartbit
@  heartbit : (03 September 2015 - 02:11 PM) meanwhile test the last version of http://ledgermonitor.heartbit.io/ :)
@  heartbit : (03 September 2015 - 02:11 PM) hm I'm not sure
@  TomB : (03 September 2015 - 02:07 PM) @heartbit the news lately in my opinion has been very positive. not sure we are going to get a lot of regular volume from us normal people but with banks/earthport volume could exceed our wildest imagination fast - so if you're out of xrp right now... have fun watching the charts/orderbooks like a hawk.
@  TomB : (03 September 2015 - 02:02 PM) would also eliminate wall on btc.bitstamp/xrp
@  TomB : (03 September 2015 - 01:59 PM) are the same sell and what ever gets bought first will eliminate them all
@  TomB : (03 September 2015 - 01:59 PM) the walls on jpy, bitstamp and cny
@  TomB : (03 September 2015 - 01:55 PM) all the sell walls are just repeated on all markets from ~iaiai rP7JWWD4zgm3GX1szbghTi2NXUniitWAKV makes the orderbooks look lopsided but we just need a small buy really.
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 01:38 PM) it killed me.
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 01:38 PM) ^^
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 01:38 PM) the last post of donch is a bomb
@  heartbit : (03 September 2015 - 01:18 PM) http://ledgermonitor.heartbit.io/
@  heartbit : (03 September 2015 - 01:09 PM) Ok it should be fixed now
@  heartbit : (03 September 2015 - 01:06 PM) trying to fix it
@  heartbit : (03 September 2015 - 01:06 PM) and not working in production
@  heartbit : (03 September 2015 - 01:06 PM) I don't know why it's working great in local
@  heartbit : (03 September 2015 - 01:06 PM) @Hurukan nop it's a weird bug
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 12:17 PM) I think I don't have websockets enabled here. :D
@  Hurukan : (03 September 2015 - 12:16 PM) http://ledgermonitor....io/transaction is fine and great

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